September 10, 2011

Flipping Issues


I need some advice. I like the idea of this domed tin bracelet - I initially linked the discs with small jump rings. After I got it all together, the bracelet keeps flipping and then all you see is the white backs of the tin discs instead of the pretty butterfly pattern.

SO I tried to instead use 7.5mm jump rings thinking that would prevent the discs from flipping. It still flipping flips. What the flip!?

I guess I may have to do another full set of domed discs, in the opposite doming direction and attach them so that there is pattern on both sides.  If you have suggestions, please let me know.


37 comments:

  1. I think instead of a bracelet, you need to think about using them for earrings because I think they would hang correctly, especially with small dangling bead or beads from your disc. 'just a thought!

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  2. Lorelei, what if you strung a cord, silk ribbon, or string of beads to run along the back side and thru the jump rings? Think that would stabilize it enough to keep it from flipping? If not, at least it would be prettier than just blank! :) Can't wait to see what you figure out!

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  3. What if you riveted a flat back to them in a coordinating color? I think the shape of them just rotates to easily.

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  4. use a head pin in each hole and make your link. so on each dome, you would have a link on each side, and attach it to the next one. That way, the links are on the underside of the dome and it should lay right for you.

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  5. I don't think there's any way to keep them from flipping. If you left them flat and put two holes on opposite sides, (each circle would be connected to the next circle with 2 jump rings side by side)that might work. If you want to keep the domes, I think it would be very pretty to have another set of domes to cover the back. But you're doubling time and materials. (Love the pattern on the tin.)

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  6. I am of absolutely no help. I have had this problem many times before and sometimes using a different size link worked and other times it didn't and I gave up and ripped it apart and made something else with it but it's soooooooo pretty! Maybe making another set for the backsides will do the trick so at least if it flips it'll still be pretty to look at?

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  7. I second Kgille's suggestion. Add a second hole in each disc and connect the discs with 2 jumprings on each side. You could add extra jumprings in the middle link (where you had either the 3mm or 7.5mm ones). It might have a bit of chain maille feel to it, but it might look interesting.

    Alternatively, could you enamel or paint the backs a complimentary color? Use gold foil or stamp a design?

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  8. Go back to the smaller jump ring between the discs and then add beads to the jump rings that connect to the discs so they are tight to the connecting jump rings- I am thinking less wiggle room.

    Or maybe instead of round jump rings, use a single oval jump ring or flat connection between the discs.

    Let us know if any of these suggestions work.

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  9. Anonymous9/10/2011

    I was going to say earrings too!

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  10. Brenda9/10/2011

    I think the bracelet needs a little bit of weight, like an anchor of sorts. What if you added a bead or series of beads to the bottom side of the jump ring that connects the two opposing jump rings? Maybe the weight of the added beads will reduce the flipping potential. Really cute, though!

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  11. What about trying double or triple jump rings instead of a single one? I have no idea if this would work or not. Connecting things is an ongoing learning curve for me.

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  12. You could weave a macrame band from waxed linen and attach each disc as you knot along.

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  13. Try adding an extra jump ring where you attached the clasp. That works for me when I have flipping pendants. It sort of acts as a swivel... I don't know if it will work on a bracelet...

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  14. Maybe another on the hook end too...hmmm... Now you've got me wonderin... :-)

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  15. double holes on each side

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  16. Just a thought. Could it be the way the lobster hooks to the other end of the bracelet that is causing the problem? I can't tell for sure from the picture but it looks as though the lobster hooks into a figure 8 piece. That might mean that the hooking of the lobster into it is causing just enough twist to the whole bracelet to turn it. A swivel clasp might solve the problem.

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  17. Hook them to each other and not to a floating jump ring. In other words, use a jump ring, maybe an oval that would connect to one hole on one disc and the other hole on the other disc. It wouldn't allow them to move as much. The entire bracelet would have to flip if they are going to flip.
    I think you've got physics working against you though because a curved object is naturally going to want to roll.

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  18. Sorry, I don't have a suggestion, but you flipping made me laugh with this: "It still flipping flips. What the flip!?"

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  19. This isn't the best solution, but it's an idea... Alternate each disc - one concave, and one convex. So even if the bracelet flips, half of the butterflies will be displayed. Another idea is to punch the discs so that the pattern is on the other side, then join two together at each link. Good luck!

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  20. Think about your points of connection and the movement of pieces. Right now you're creating turning points, which are exacerbated by being on the wrist, which has lots of movement, the domed shapes, and the relatively large shapes in conjunction with thin connections. Try adding another point in your connection to stabilize your points of connection. So use two smaller jump rings and then a single jump ring in the center that lies flat and stays flat. You might have better luck drilling additional holes to create a wider base of connection. Think of little triangles.

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  21. Anonymous9/11/2011

    I have 2 suggestion:
    First put two hole on each side, that should help
    Also keep them closer together as in only one small jumpsuit at the connections

    Or a combination of the two.

    Jennifer
    Www.jenniferwiles.con

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  22. This is a very beautiful bracelet !!and reminds me of a sterling silver handmade bracelet with hammered(?) pattern my mother did have...about the flipping I agree with You...make one with domed discs with nice pattern on both sides :)

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  23. I wonder if it would flip if they were domed the other way - convex instead of concave (or maybe it's the other way around).

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  24. Thinking that they are flipping because of the doming against the wrist makes them unstable. If they had the dome reversed, then you would effectively have a large flat ring against the wrist and perhaps that would cure your 'flips'

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  25. Here are a few thoughts:
    Maybe if you tried putting two holes per each side of the disks and tried figure 8's for linking.
    Or link a flat bead or washer in-between each disk. Or maybe just worn tighter???

    Looks lovely though.

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  26. That's a flipping interesting problem! I assume you want the bracelet to look just like this with the domes turned this direction, and connnected with jump rings like that. I wonder why the discs flip. Must have something to do with gravity, weight, shapes most stable position and maybe a few more things.

    How about attatching something under each disc, that would sort of change the weight distribution. Like a rubber ring from my elements, or a metal jump ring of larger size for a more discrete effect. Or another layer of tin domes, but ringed ones, so that the underside of the top dome is still the one touching the skin. I'll be happy to draw a sketch for you of how I mean, if you want me to. Don't know if it would work though. I am thinking it would change the weight distribution of the domes. Now there is more weight at the edge since that has the largest diameter. And the heaviest side wants to be furthest down so to speak. I guess it is a typical case of learning by trial and error to get to the wished design. An "it SHALL look the way I want it to" - case. Please do not give up. I love problems like this, and if you figure it out more designers would benefit from it.

    Looking forward to see the development!

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  27. Hi,

    1.If the bracelet is losely worn on the wrist, then it will flip over. Maybe try fitting it just nice on the wrist, it will hold the pattern from flipping over.

    2. Instead of 7.5mm jump ring, try using flat connector ring, and connect the patterned domed with the 3mm jump ring. Something heavy *( slightly heavier that the dome tins ) and flat have to hold the patterns from flipping over.

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  28. As others have said, I think it has to do with their shape. Maybe if you dome them the other way. Little bumps instead of little craters...

    The big mystery for me however is where you find these beautiful tins...

    - Pepita

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  29. Gosh, I hope you can figure something out. this is beautiful! - Kathy

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  30. I also think that there are several things that are going on, but I want to second Rosalynn's idea about rethinking your clasp. The figure-8 ring is oriented horizontally, and (if I'm seeing the claw construction correnctly), the claw also is on a horizontal plane. Once the claw hooks to the figure-8 there is a point of instability - theoretically, the claw should hook on the vertical in order to 'match up' to the horizontal of the figure-8, but instead there are 2 horizontals hooked together, creating a twisty point. But even if you added an extra ring to put the claw on the vertical, the physics of the claw's shape would mean that it would twist itself trying to lay (lie?) flat. Maybe work with the claw's built-in horizontality (new word?!??) and try changing the figure-8 to vertical (though I think it's going to want to try to stay horizontal, too).

    I don't know that this will help at all - I spend a lot of time obsessing about horizontal/vertical/horizontal/etc - and it doesn't always help when I do. But maybe it's one more piece of the puzzle...

    And I also think the bigger mystery is where you find the beautiful tins....I'm so jealous!

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  31. What about making new ones, doming them the other way. An other thought is to turn every other the other way, and end up with a bracelet that looks more or less the same on both sides. But then again both ideas would look a little bit different than the original.

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  32. I think the dual holes idea the people had above might work because it is probaably their shape and where they are worn that is causing most of the problem for you. Also, can you enamel the backs? If so, then it would look very pretty if it did continue to flip over.

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  33. My opinion is that Andrew's opinion is brilliant! He gave a very thorough analysis and explained the situation very well. The design is beautiful, Lorelei. And where do you get those tin pieces?

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  34. I think adding a ribbon or bit or something would help stabilize it. Perhaps a band just wider then the discs that would act as a backing for the bracelet.

    I hope one of these suggestions help. I saw a few about adding a second hole but that makes me cringe at the thought of damaging these beautiful things >.<

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  35. I don't know if anyone said this, but what is you used two jump rings to attach them instead of just one? Might make it more stable.

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  36. I would also suggest making it smaller if possible, and/or attaching the bracelet to a nice wide leather band.

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  37. The two jumprings method works for me. I've made a couple of sterling bracelets with domed discs. With one jumpring the flip over, with two they stay where they're supposed to!
    Of course, Andrew put it better than that :) but it works for me!
    That's a beautiful tin you've used.

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